SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Thank you all. It’s still rough. Been reading as much as I can.

Still in this angry and exhausted phase. I feel good when I’m around my friends. But I have have this empty hollow feeling in my stomach at all times.

I just feel lonely. Sounds super weird, but I miss laying down and cuddling. Just holding onto someone (I.e. my wife) is what I have been craving. But I’ve been getting lots of hugs from loved ones. Still not the same.

Ark, it’s hard to see it now, but you will get better. All posters here went through this and we know… The posters will give you advice for the long term. How can we get you out of this situation so that you will be happy a year(s) down the road?

So I’m leaning more towards D than R. But I’m going through the steps of R.

Is this still accurate? If you go towards D, the key is to detach. If you go towards R, the key is to make sure your WW becomes a safe partner. What has she done to fix herself? She is the one that is broken and has abused you, like hellfire said.

I just feel lonely. Sounds super weird, but I miss laying down and cuddling. Just holding onto someone (I.e. my wife) is what I have been craving. But I’ve been getting lots of hugs from loved ones. Still not the same.

Not uncommon but compare that to living in infidelity.

😞

What’s happening?

Our thoughts are with you. You will get through this.

My sister come over to our house with her fiancé tonight. It’s the first time she has seen my wife since September 19th (my 8 year olds birthday).

She came over with the intent of asking her questions. They considered each other best friends. When I wasn’t with my wife, my sister was. Or my sister was just always around us.

My sister was BROKEN when she found all of this out. My wife was her best friend. It’s been really hard for her not to come around, and see my two daughters.

Anyway. Her fiancé asked a bunch of questions, ones I’ve already asked. I had to chime in, and yell a few times just out of complete irritation, and her trying to down grade everything.

After awhile we left then alone (my sister and my wife) to talk. My sister came back and said, she seems remorseful. But seemed to want to shrug this off on a few different incidents. Like the back scratch fight, and just being angry about it and loosing a "spark" after that fight. Holding resentment twoards me.

Ugh. I’m still in this weird WTF mindset. How could this happen. It could have been a simple conversation. Which is what my sister said. No matter how angry she was. This was not the way to do it.

But my sister knows how in love with her I was.

This is 100% on your WW, Ark. Nothing you did, nothing you said, could cause her to throw away her integrity. If her core value of Fidelity was what it ought to have been, it's not dependent on YOUR behavior, right? You don't maintain faithfulness because your partner is nice to you. You do it because you believe that it's WRONG to cheat. And that's what this is all about. When a WS tells us that it was about resentment, or not feeling fulfilled, or needing more attention, etc., they're telling us that their core value of fidelity is dependent on other things and not on themselves. There are no boundaries surrounding their core value of Fidelity because they don't REALLY value it as a matter of right and wrong. Intellectually, they know cheating is "wrong", but it's not wrong enough to stop them from doing it. They've got a "but..." in their values system. ie. "She believes in Fidelity, but... not if she's feeling resentful". You see how that works, right? There's should never be a "but...". Never.

Your WW isn't a safe bet for R until she takes REAL responsibility for everything she did. Her boundaries were permeable and weak because she doesn't really stand for anything. She thinks Fidelity is negotiable, that it depends on YOUR behavior. And yes... that can change. But it's painful, humbling work. It's a total tear-down of character because the WS needs to admit that they are NOT the person they thought they were... not even close to being a worthy partner. If you follow some of the stories in the Wayward section, you'll see that lots of new arrivals don't stay, because it's hard. But the ones who do put in that painful hard work can tell you it doesn't happen overnight. It takes time and dedication, and the first thing you will notice, is that they no longer blame anyone or anything for their earlier choices. They own those choices 100% and they've faced their own demons and called them by their ugly names.

Anyway, all that to say that you don't necessarily have to give up hope yet. Hang in there.

On page one, when you wrote this:

But she knows and has told me this is 1000% her fault. She holds no blame on me

It might have been you projecting what you wanted to see? Now she’s downplaying the affair and blaming the missing spark.

When one runs a red light and get in an accident, one can say "it was just a mistake ", "the city was stupid to put a light there", "the other driver saw me but ran into me anyways on purpose it’s his fault", "why am I ALWAYS this unlucky?". When one doesn’t take the blame and responsibility , one gets "unlucky" again, and again…

Your WW needs to fix herself before she can be a safe partner.

Ark, I too had very well meaning family members bumbling around trying to keep me and my ExWW together and rug sweep and minimize her affair.
They said all kinds of very ignorant things and made all sorts of totally unqualified assertions. They just desperately wanted us to stay together and to assuage our suffering as quickly as possible. It was total amateur hour.
They really had no idea what they were doing and no knowledge of the complexities involved. They were just doing their best trying to help.

Hell, there's "trained" family therapists out there who have no idea how to handle infidelity.

BS only

[This message edited by WalkinOnEggshelz at 1:56 PM, Saturday, October 30th]

NO WSs in JFO. Read the restrictions. You are confused, confused. Get out of this lane.

Her fiancé asked a bunch of questions, ones I’ve already asked. I had to chime in, and yell a few times just out of complete irritation, and her trying to down grade everything.

After awhile we left then alone (my sister and my wife) to talk. My sister came back and said, she seems remorseful. But seemed to want to shrug this off on a few different incidents. Like the back scratch fight, and just being angry about it and loosing a "spark" after that fight. Holding resentment towards me.

Ark,

If your wife really sees any kind of equivalence between you asking if she cheated, and her eleven month affair, there is something seriously wrong with her. Personally, I think she is desperately finding anything at all she can throw at you to try and create a motivation and justification for something that she chose to do independently, and which is 100% on her. If you buy into the ridiculous nonsense about grievances and grudges, which presumably means the affair was a punishment she deliberately inflicted on you in revenge - which any normal, sane person would do, right? - then you are going to end up apologizing to her and begging for her forgiveness.

I also wonder why, if the 'spark' was gone eleven months ago, and she was so resentful towards you and hellbent on revenge, she got pregnant by you nine months ago - AFTER the great resentful revenge affair had begun - and carried your baby to term. Isn't there a huge contradiction between hating a man, enacting vengeance against him, and then willingly getting pregnant by him and carrying his child? How does that hang together? It just doesn't.

If the 'spark' really was gone, and your wife really was full of resentment and an obsession with vengeance, why was she messaging you about how fantastic life with you was going to be in the new home, your daughter running down the corridors, etc? If there is no spark, and she hated you enough to punish you with a revenge affair, why would she have visions of such a happy future with you?

These are, of course, rhetorical questions.

It doesn't hang together, because she did not cheat due to missing sparks or quests for vengeance after foul slurs against her good character. She cheated because the opportunity came along, and she thought she could get away with it. Had she not mistakenly sent you that screengrab of her conversation with her AP, the affair might well still be going on, in tandem with happy families skipping down corridors of new homes.

Many wayward create a justification in their mind that makes their actions 'right', no matter how irrational or ludicrous the justification may be. It is psychological monkey shines, and it is going to take your wife some time to return to reality after self-brainwashing herself with the nonsense she is spouting currently.

There is no justification for what she did. None. If there were problems in the relationship, she could have talked to you about them. She did not. The problems only began after the affair began, because they were created to serve her purpose.

She may cling on to her 'reasons' for some time - some waywards never let go of them - because they prevent her from having to look at the real reasons for her actions, which are her own character, values, boundaries, and integrity. Some people are capable of putting down their shield of lies and taking a long, hard look at themselves in the mirror. Some are not.

To be absolutely fair here, it has to be said that just as you are still reeling because your D-Day is very recent, your wife's adherence to her bogus justifications and causes will still be strong for the same reason. She spent eleven months brainwashing herself with that garbage, and it is going to take time for her to stop doing it, let go of it, and truly start to own her actions as 100% her choices and decisions. The down-grading you mention suggests she has some way to go.

Please take good care of yourself, Ark. Everyone here wants what is best for you.

[This message edited by M1965 at 12:14 PM, Saturday, October 30th]

Sounds like your wife is minimizing the pain to you as well as the destruction of your trust in her.
It's typical thinking this early on.

I'm sorry if you already answered this but: has your wife written a detailed timeline (texts, conversations, where, when, what, including how she felt each meeting)?

It's for her benefit as well as yours. She will likely resist because it's forces her to confront 'who' she is.

Writing it all down tends to transform the affair (in her head) from a harmless tryst between star crossed lovers into the ugly betrayal that destroyed her family and spouse.

You two were trying to have another child.

She not only had an affair - but she was willing to have the OM's baby.

What was her thinking having unprotected sex with the OM while planning to have another child with her life partner?

I raise the issue because it seems like no-win self destructive behavior characteristic of someone with serious low self esteem/mental issues (someone that doesn't believe they deserve the 'good' life). Someone that needs a lot of therapy to make herself a safe partner (for you or the next guy).

Thank you guys for the help.

I’m at a point of pain. I’m angry for my pain, bevy I’ve never felt such a deep searing pain in my mind, heart, and stomach. I want to go off.

I’m trying to channel that in positive outlets. But when I’m home, damn. I’m just not ok. I want to yell, scream, slam doors, punch walls. (I’m not doing that.) but I want her to feel the way I do. So badly I want to shake this miserable fucking pain.

My family and friends are here with support. It’s not that I don’t feel like I don’t have anyone. I feel like nobody has me. And I know they are there. But it is my battle, and it’s my decisions. But for the first time in my life I feel so damn alone.

There's nothing to make her go through the trauma you went through, including things like revenge affaire etc. But if you still want to turn her world upside down to make her pay for what she did to you, file for divorce.

It's also the best way for you to survive infidelity and heal.

Ark - I’m so sorry for your pain. One of the reasons you feel so alone is because your WW is trying to rug sweep, blame shift, and minimize. She’s unconcerned about your pain and is unempathetic. The little bit of these things that she is expressing, to both you and your sister, is qualified. She regrets being caught and feels justified in having her A. Why? Because she believes she deserved her A and essentially blames you for it.

Until she takes full responsibility for the A snd becomes fully remorseful, with no conditions or blame shifting attached, she will continue to be the source of your pain instead of being the source for your healing.

IMO, you should insist she goes to IC immediately. You need to vet the Counselor to ensure that they have expertise in infidelity and infidelity trauma, and that the counselor is not one to excuse cheating.

However, I don’t see your WW as someone who would necessarily agree to IC. I think you’ll absolutely make zero progress until she goes to IC, and even then, I’m skeptical that she’ll ever get it. She just doesn’t seem to be the type. Hopefully, that’s not the case.

That rage is normal.. and exhausting. You've mentioned your stomach a couple of times now, and I don't remember if you've seen the doctor yet. If not, make an appointment and talk about ANXIETY. The amygdala of the brain tend to get a bit stuck on high alert, responding to triggers and thoughts about the affair by releasing adrenaline and cortisol into your body. If you're drinking any alcohol to feel better, it just multiplies the effect the next day making you twice as anxious. So, the doctor can give you a little medication to take when you've been triggered and that should help a good bit.

Try paying attention to your symptoms so you know when you've been bombed by your amygdala. What I noticed was that I might feel a little shock or upset, then I would notice some mild pain in my neck and shoulders, a bit of hollowness or even "flip-flopping" in my stomach, some aching in my head. It took me a long time to realize that there was a whole set of symptoms because I was such an achy mess to begin with and the symptoms are relatively mild.

There are a few other things you can try that aren't medication though. When you notice that trigger, try "Four Square Breathing". First responders use it to steady up in emergency situations. It will actually help lower blood pressure when it spikes. You can look it up online. It's basically just "In-two-three-four, Hold-two-three-four, Out-two-three-four, Hold-two-three-four".

Mindfulness and Mediation are also good. I am terrible at Mediation utilizing breathing techniques. I tend to get bogged down wondering if I'm doing it right. But one style that works better for me is Auditory Meditation, where you just stop, relax, and LISTEN. You identify as many sounds as you can hear and as far away as you can hear them. A more prolonged exercise would be Adult Coloring. You know, those coloring books you see for grown-ups. Basically, you just get out a package of colored pencils and go to town. Mandalas are the norm. There's one artist I like in particular that you can find online, Valentina Harper. I like that one because there are so many small parts. And yeah... I hear you. I know it sounds ridiculous. But it works. The mindless process of coloring with no more thought than what your next color is going to be CALMS THE AMYGDALA, not any differently really than a prolonged session of mediation would. I'm just not capable of meditating for long enough to get any calm out of it... but I can color all day. Get a book for you and one for your 8 year-old. She doesn't have to know it's therapy. She'll just be coloring with Dad.

When the rage is bad... walk it off, punch a bag. Hell, my therapist had me fill up water balloons, write my bit of grief on each one, then throw them at a brick wall. Remember that no matter how fierce the feeling might be, it does NOT control you. Feeling aren't facts and they can't hurt you in and of themselves.

It does not help your wife does not have remorse. If your wife can say that what you did caused this, how can she ask that you forgive her.