SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Yes. A VAR at ALL TIMES. I can't stress that enough. Have it on you all the time. Do you have any nanny cams in your house? If not, get one for every room. You may need it as evidence.

We had a BH who posted that he had been sitting on the couch, his WW upstairs. He hadn't even spoken to her. The doorbell rang, and she came flying down the stairs, mascara streaked down her face, hair a mess. She opened the door to the police, and proceeded to tell them he had been pushing her around, and pulling her hair. And he was arrested. We had warned him to carry the var all the time. He thought we were being dramatic, and his wife wouldn't do anything like that. But she did.

Please don't beat yourself up over your rage. You have every right to rage, your entire world has been decimated by the one person who you thought had your back.

Ark, I am 16 years out from my D-Day. The person I became right after D-Day and probably for the first few years (although it did wane) was someone I didn't recognize. I became potty mouth. I raged and I raged and I raged and I raged. He took everything I threw at him. That's the sign of a remorseful spouse. I called him and his AP every name in the book. Understand that EVERY aspect of your life has been damaged because of the emotional trauma...your marriage, your family, your job, your friends, your social life, your health, your security, every.freaking.thing. A nuclear bomb has been dropped on your life and the fallout is far and wide and will take YEARS not months to move through whether you reconcile or divorce. It's not an easy path and not for the faint of heart. It is a living hell, an emotional roller coaster, a nightmare that you wake up to every morning and the first thing you think about is the affair and the last thing you think about before you can actually fall asleep is the affair. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

Getting your feelings out is cathartic. Exercise helps. Getting out of the house for short respites from the daily routines helps. I used to grab my computer and go to a coffee shop and just sit and stare. Somehow it helped. I took drives and screamed blood curdling screams, it helped. Whatever it takes to release some of the rage. Also keep in mind, you might be developing PTSD. Many of us here did, and that's a whole other layer of being in the abyss, trying to crawl your way out, only to fall down into that huge dark, deep hole.

Counseling for you is a must. Talking with a close TRUSTED friend or family member or member of the clergy is a must. Temporary medications might help take the edge off.

Don't let anyone tell you HOW YOU SHOULD FEEL.

One day at a time, don't allow your wife to make you feel guilty. Rage masks pain and you are in intense pain that won't go away by taking a pain pill. The only thing that will help is time, counseling, support and a wife who will do everything, and I mean everything you need her to do should you decide to reconcile.

Is she reading How to Help Your Spouse Heal from an Affair?

Ark,

Many may disagree with me on this:

It's ok for you to be angry-it's expected, it's healthy, it's natural BUT...

You've got to lay off some of that name calling. Many of those terms are absolutely abusive, completely counter productive, and will get you into trouble.

I too was extremely angry with my WW, but direct purposeful abuse of that nature was off the table for many, many reasons.

REASON 1: When this is all over, you're going to have to have some kind of a relationship with her, at the very least, a healthy coparenting relationship.

REASON 2: If you decide to D, you want the proceedings to go as amicably as possible. It's extremely poor strategy to enrage your opponent in a divorce proceeding unless you want to spend $20 Gs fighting over the toaster. Don't make it easy for her to demonize you.

REASON 3: SHE is the abuser. You currently hold the moral high ground. If you continue a campaign of verbal abuse, you will lose that status, and you will lose any sympathy-if she has any, for you and, you will lose the sympathy of others. Keep the lines clearly demarcated. She is the abuser. You are the abused. Don't blur that line. Don't lose your integrity or your dignity. Its undignified to call any woman, a cunt. You know that. That word was beneath you at one time. Don't lose yourself, your dignity, as result of her actions. Don't let her do that to you.

When this is all over you may find that your dignity is all that you have left.

REASON 4: If you decide to R, you will never be able to take those words back and convince her that someday you can forgive her. She will believe that you will NEVER forgive her and worse...that you will NEVER respect her again. That will leave you absolutely NOTHING to reconcile. No respect = No love.

REASON 5: Cheaters already have serious psychological issues and many times they already know it. Many times their guilt can rise to toxic levels-"Toxic Guilt", which can be very unproductive in reconciliation. Many cheaters have extremely low self esteem and repetitively calling them a whore can be very counterproductive to R and undermine their IC. Reinforcing their already poor self esteem can also be detrimental to parenting and coparenting. No matter what happens next (Reconciliation or Divorce) you, at least, want her to healthfully reconcile with herself so that she can eventually go on to become a good parent to your child.

Reason 6: Verbal abuse of that nature can easily become physical abuse or set you up for false DV charges. Verbal abuse of that nature makes her feel glad she cheated on you, and will make her all too willing to hurt you any other way she possibly can.

PS: And, for God's sake, NEVER EVER text that stuff or acknowledge in writing that you did, indeed, say that stuff. I've seen texts of that nature brought to the bench and RO's promptly administered.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 9:52 PM, Thursday, October 21st]

Just out of curiosity can you ask her what the names are she does agree with and now "owns" as she put it. Just so you know which ones are fair game for you to use.

Damn M1965, that was an epic takedown of the WW's mind games. Well done, sir. You did a service for the OP here. Hat's off.

I’ve read enough stories on SI from BH to know she is starting to build "proof" to protect herself if this goes to D. Some one has advised her to get things in writing, unsure if it’s legal advice, could be AP coaching or her parents but that was a bait text for sure, she wrote just enough vagueness to come across as her trying to R all the while playing victim. It was also very manipulative to use your kids as carrots/prize for "falling into line" with her requests.

No more responding to her bait, 180 or even grey rock, detach to cool off. At least you know her game play now, that you’re abusing her, it’s not original MO, far too many WW jump onto this to explain/justify their As to outsiders who know about their infidelity and for custody. Protect yourself.

Keep a VAR on you, you got to watch your words/correspondence and it doesn’t hurt to talk to a D lawyer because they can tell you what you need to do to protect yourself and your custody case before she does too much damage. They can file for paternity testing too.

[This message edited by LostInHisFog at 10:45 PM, Thursday, October 21st]

Abuse is abuse. And it's never okay. What your WW did to you was abusive and it was NOT okay, and what you're doing now is abuse... and it's NOT okay. I think it's good that the two of you have separated. Separation is absolutely indicated when one or both partners is unable to be productive. It's better to take some space rather than pile onto the damage, right?

Don't get me wrong, your rage is NORMAL. It's understandable. But just as your WW can never un-fuck her AP, you can never recall a single word which has already left your mouth. It all becomes part of the marital history. So, I'm not admonishing you or trying to make you feel bad. You already feel bad, hence the break down of civility. I just want you to know that your reaction is normal, but it needs change so you don't damage yourself.

Believe me, I know it's hard and I know that the rage feels all encompassing. But you don't want to let something that someone else did make YOU into someone you can't even recognize. Take some time away from the marriage until you're ready to deal with it. And if the time never comes that you're ready to deal with it, well.. there's your answer. This is ultimately about YOU and how you feel about yourself when you've lost control, which is something I can identify with completely. I'm a lucky woman to have been born with an awful temper. I fought that rage for the first twenty or so years of my life. And what I eventually learned was that I wasn't hurting anyone as badly as I was hurting ME. I felt so ashamed and so small when I'd lose control. And that's what it is really when those awful words burst out of your mouth like they've got a life of their own.. a loss of control. Because I had to learn young, by the time I was in my early fifties and caught my WH in a Craigslist binge, I had mastered my temper. Even so, the temptation to let those harsh words out was terrible.

So far, your instincts have been right on target. You've got a really good idea about what you need to see in order to be open to R and a commendable grasp on when it's time to get the hell away from each other for awhile. The area where I suspect you're going to end up NOT feeling good about yourself though is here... "I told you until you can accept you "deserved" to be called those names. To leave me alone."
No one deserves to be abused, not verbally, not physically, not emotionally. When we fight fire with fire so to speak, we end up becoming that which we hate, and believe me, as you process this betrayal there are already going to be times when you're torturing yourself because we have a tendency as human beings to turn profound hurt in on ourselves. The last thing you need is to provide ammo to your inner critic.

Anyway, remember that shit happens. No one has a manual for how to deal with having a figurative knife stuck in their back. So, DON'T beat yourself up over this. Instead, take the time you need away from your WW and get your breath back. You're going to be okay. Really. I know it doesn't feel like it, but you will. It's a hard slog for a long, long while, but the pain really is temporary and finite.

Strength to you as you process.

Hi Ark,

I’m a lawyer by training but likely not in your state. Don’t take what I am about to say as legal advice. Do call a lawyer.

Here goes.

Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.

No more texting unless you are ok with it on the front page of the New York Times. No emails or phone calls like that either.

Never again use those words or anything else.

Are they natural? Sure. But, if she’s asking about confirmation you said those things to her then she is laying the groundwork for both the divorce and the smear job she’s going to pull on you with your social circle.

Your WW just got caught banging some dude while she was PREGNANT with your child. That’s like grade A, nuclear fallout for both her social circle and divorce.

If she’s that cold, imagine what else she can pull.

Her best card to play is that you’re abusive so she "had to."

It’s a card to play in divorce. "Yes Judge, I may have been screwing random while pregnant and possibly exposing them to disease… but he’s abusive! Look what he’s been calling me. He’s been doing this for years! I just couldn’t take it anymore. I love my kids and don’t want them to grow up in the presence of this abuse."

See how that works? She’s leveling the scales.

If you’re alone with her then I wouldn’t put it past her to do a false DV charge.

I only chime in when I see danger. You’re in danger.

What do you do? Here are some simple steps.

1.) Stay away from her; done be alone with her without a VAR or at all if you can avoid it.

2.) Don’t talk to her at all, and if you have to for the kids use text or email and keep it boring.

3.) File for divorce. Yes. It will take the wind out of her sails and help defend in the case of a possible false DV charge. It’ll make it clearly retaliatory in a judges eyes (hopefully).

4.) Focus completely on the kids even while you feel like you’re dying. They need you.

5.) Get. A. Lawyer.

Again. You’re in danger. That text is a setup for divorce. I’m assuming she’s already talked to a lawyer. Be ready and file. If there’s love you can always stop or get remarried or whatever.

What you have here is dangerous. Very dangerous.

Again, consult a lawyer in your own state.

Why do I say she’s talked to a lawyer?

Compare these two statements:

"I love you and I am sorry. I can’t believe I did this. But I can’t handle being called these names. I understand why you are, and I deserve it, but I can’t take it right now. I am sorry."

And

"Your statements are verbally abusive and what you’re doing is emotionally abusive and it needs to stop right now."

If I’m a lawyer, I want the opposing party to admit to the second statement.

Chamomile said it better than I. ^^^

And, a lawyer (Wagging the dog) has spoken.

Great posts

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 12:04 AM, Friday, October 22nd]

Ark04l - you're going to get a lot of opinions here, all of them genuine and coming from a place that want to help you.

Personally, I think that advice to betrayed spouses and how they are allowed to behave should be (relatively) uniform regardless of their gender, but that isn't always the case.

And certainly the general dynamics of male/female in terms of physical intimidation need to be understood.

However, regardless of the gender of the betrayed spouse, I come from the school of "tough shit if you are called some nasty names or told some uncomfortable truths about yourself after you fuck someone behind your partner's back."

Rage is normal. Spouting off some nasty names or nastygrams is perfectly normal. And up to a point, cathartic.

If somebody sucker-punches you smack in the nose, and you in turn verbally call them a vile motherfucker - I think that person got the better end of the deal, got off easy in fact, while you have a broken and bleeding nose and maybe a concussion.

So to compare your calling her names, after you find out that your wife didn't even know who the father of her child was, but she was happy to have you raise the child as your own, while she continued to fuck the sleazebag during her entire pregnancy, is simply a false equivalency.

Now, is calling her every name in the book and raging at her "right"? Of course not! But you are not Jesus. After what you just found out, what was inflicted upon you, it is completely understandable that your anger is verbalized. Not with "What you did hurt me so much...", but with "You are a ...." - because it is true.

I find that reading here, there is a definite divide of telling men to eat their emotions, and understanding the need, or even encouraging women to let it fly.

***

All that aside - now you have to be smart. Your story is TERRIBLE! But now you have to understand that it can get even worse.

Your wife is PSYCHO to behave the way she did, and the way she is behaving after being caught. I agree with every poster that she is building a case against you. Even if she isn't trying to build a court case (she is), she is trying to build a case against you as a person.

You need to get away from her now, and honestly you need to stay away from her. She will ruin your life - even more than she has already.

Maybe she can be redeemed as a human being in the future. But do you really want to take that chance?

And can you truly accept her back in your life, as your wife - forever?

I agree that the 180 and "Grey Rock" are what you should do. However, the pain is so fresh, raw, and enormous, I don't see how you can really contain your disgust with her and what she did.

So you need to stay away. Carry a VAR. When dealing with the children, make sure you have somebody else around, as much as possible.

And friend.... you could toss a pillow into a crowd 10,000 times and 9,999 times you will find a better woman than this. I wouldn't chain my life to this person. Think it over.

Good luck to you.

I haven’t had a chance to read everyone’s comments.

But I went ahead and deleted my texts within her phone. There is no no chain. From this point on I will not be texting her anything other than black and white responses

I find that reading here, there is a definite divide of telling men to eat their emotions, and understanding the need, or even encouraging women to let it fly.

There is divide here because men are at a disadvantage in court, especially when they easily put themselves at a disadvantage-incriminate themselves. My advice to any BS is to not abuse, don't be baited to abuse, and definitively do not allow any abuse to be documented.

Yes, the rage is completely understandable. I'm sure the Judge deep down gets it.

However, the courts don't give a rats ass if your WW cheated all through her pregnancy, but they will be compelled to take action against an apparently abusive husband who can be easily characterized, via an easily constructed smear campaign supported by the BS's own well documented enraged rants, as a possible threat to spouse and kids and this will work directly or indirectly against him.

The courts and authorities will always err on the side of protective caution.

It's easy to sit here in this den of fellow betrayed and talk shit, but in a clinical professional court setting, that shit don't fly. Cooler heads will prevail. Sorry, that's harsh, not always fair, reality.

So, I think it wise to advocate for the BS by encouraging them to be calm, cool and calculating when dealing with their unstable, unpredictable WS's. Then elsewhere, release that rage in a safe way in a safe environment.

I haven’t had a chance to read everyone’s comments.

But I went ahead and deleted my texts within her phone. There is no no chain. From this point on I will not be texting her anything other than black and white responses

Good job. I agree with RealityBlows.. you just can't be too careful.

ETA: Although I disagree with the idea that there's any definitive proof that your WW is setting you up for a D/V charge. Yeah, there are some red flags, and because the first thing you realize after an intimate betrayal is that you didn't know that person as well as you thought you did... better safe than sorry.

That said, it's not AT ALL unusual for a WS to defend themselves from verbal castigation and name-calling. There's no proof that there's anything nefarious going on in your WW's request that you stop doing it or even that she perceives it to be abusive. I'll be honest with you... I'm not a cheater, but if I walk the proverbial mile in those shoes, I can't imagine ANY scenario in which I'd stand still and allow my spouse to call me those kind of names, no matter how badly I might feel. IMHO, there's a bit of an "ick" factor to your WW's cheating which is going to put a whole lot of people on edge. The fact that she was having sex while pregnant and the possibility that she didn't know who's child it was adds some nasty to it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not encouraging or discouraging you regarding R. I just think you'd be wise to consider that there's likely to be a few folks here who are really angry on your behalf and their advice to you is likely going to reflect it.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 2:28 AM, Friday, October 22nd]

Earlier I wrote that I couldn't offer you reconciliation, but divorce. I said this just considering the way she cheated. But now, considering her text, I strongly suggest you run.

I agree with what others have written. M1965 made a great translation, and more can be added.

The text is not sincere, it is written in a very cold style. She really wrote it like someone trying to gather evidence for herself.

She stabbed you in the back and expects you not to shout.She makes herself a victim by minimizing her own actions and exaggerating yours, at least she is trying to equalize herself with you. Obviously she already looks at it that way, but she's trying to convince you and others of that too.

This type of emotional outbursts is something that should not be done in terms of not easing the conscience of the cheater.

It's not uncommon for the cheater to expect an emotional, sometimes even physical reactions from the betrayed.

For example, they force the betrayed to say something if they don't show any verbal or emotional reaction. Anger is also a conscience easing reaction for them as well as pain, sadness and crying.

I suggest you doing hard 180 and not engage with her. Be calm and just contact about the issues related to you kids, and via text if possible.

Btw, maybe some will be angry at me, but I think you have access to her e-mail or messaging apps; I think you should delete your texts after making sure that she has not been forwarded elsewhere, from the deleted and sent box too of course.

Edit : I read your post after I posted. Good job!

[This message edited by guvensiz at 7:56 PM, October 21st (Thursday)]

I haven’t had a chance to read everyone’s comments.

But I went ahead and deleted my texts within her phone. There is no no chain. From this point on I will not be texting her anything other than black and white responses

Smart move. Be wary of face to face trapping too, just assume she has planted VAR to trap and adjust your language moving forward. I had blind rage issues (I think all BS experience various degrees of it) & I had to learn to bite my tongue, detach and walk away to cool off. Takes practice and she is likely to goad you into reacting but you need to not bite the bait. There are guides online to help "how not to react in anger" and you’ll find some tips.

If she starts to use baiting statements like “you know when you call me X” or “don’t you think when you did X” etc etc just say “I don’t know what you’re talking about” or walk away, don’t acknowledge it.

[This message edited by LostInHisFog at 2:11 AM, Friday, October 22nd]

I haven’t had a chance to read everyone’s comments.

But I went ahead and deleted my texts within her phone. There is no no chain. From this point on I will not be texting her anything other than black and white responses

Does her phone back up to the cloud?

Some very good advice here. It’s so hard when you have been so deeply hurt. It really is a trauma.

Just some thoughts from your WW’s last message. One thing we learn from this crap is that we can’t control others. You can’t force your WW to feel a certain way or accept the names you called her. Your rage is normal. You need to vent at her, but be careful. Your words can be used against you as you have been advised.

Also, your WW can’t heal you. Yes, she can show you empathy and remorse. But she needs to work on herself. She is the broken one. Her betrayal was cold and cruel. I didn’t see her mention the need for IC or to address her brokenness that allowed her to betray you in this matter. She is focused on your anger and healing you, when her focus should be on herself. You need to heal you. Get counseling to help you cope with the rollercoaster of emotional swings. Look to get stronger and healthier for you and your children.

And don’t beat yourself up. There is nothing you could have done to prevent her infidelity. And you are not to blame. Good luck.

I’m so ready to focus on YOUR healing. That’s what is most important!!!

"Mother Teresa? Is that you?"

Sarcasm is much more effective than anger. So you show that you understand she is trying to make a fool of you, but she is the fool, and that you never give a fuck about her bullshit.

See an attorney asap. Please.

I’ve talked to an attorney.

It’s the the typical "do you want to divorce her?!"

"Ok, we’ll take the time you need. There is no rush. We will be to help when you are ready"

What do I need to ask my attorney specifically?!

Guys, I’m still in limbo. I’m still in shell shock. I’m up and down minute by minute. I know divorce RIGHT NOW. Would kill my chances at bonding with my new born. But it would also KILL my 8 year old right before the holidays.

My 8 year old is the only thing keeping me going. We’ve already had a talk with her saying "mommy and daddy are fighting. But mommy hurt daddy really bad and is doing her best to make it right". That conversation had her down. And I can’t imagine rushing into D right before the holidays. I’d hold on just for her.

So am I stalling a bit? I think so. But I really am treading water in the middle of the fucking ocean too. No land insight, no boats, no planes. It’s not a good feeling.